The Truth About Fitness Information Products, Internet Marketing, and What REALLY Works on the Internet.


A couple of months ago I did a phone interview with Pat Beith – a fitness professional turned SUCCESSFUL internet marketer.

Originally I had planned on using this transcription as a bonus for a product I was working on but after reading through it I decided to make it available to everyone because it’s something that EVERY fitness professional should read.

If you’ve ever wondered “how can I got from here to there” or “how did this person go from being a trainer to being a successful fitness info marketer – then you’ll want to read this entire post because I not only get Pat to share his secrets for dominating the info product market but also showcase the timeline where he went from personal trainer to info marketer.

This is a really good read… enjoy!

Bedros Keuilian: Hey, guys. This is Bedros Keuilian. And on the phone right now is Pat Beith with Athletes Acceleration. Pat, how are you?

Pat Beith: I’m great, Bedros. Thank you.

BK: Hey, man. Listen, I gotta tell you; it’s been some time that I’ve known of you. Your story is kind of in bits and pieces, and from everything that I can tell and everything I’ve heard you’ve had an awesome transformation where you went from being a personal trainer to then nicheing yourself into working with athletes, speed clinics and such, and of course, now in the information marketing business. Can you just tell me what that whole transition was like?

PB: Yeah. My story’s kind of all over the place, but I think it resonates, especially with a lot of personal trainers out there.

But first, I want to say I’ve been following your stuff for a long time now, and I’m pretty excited to be on the call for the first time. I’m excited, and I’ll just tell you a brief story about how I got all started.

BK: Sure.

alarmPB: I studied exercise physiology in college. So when I graduated there — they pretty much gear you towards a research job, or if you want to go the personal training route, those are the only two options that you have coming out of college that I saw. So I started working as a personal trainer and quickly became manager of one of the largest personal training departments in Boston. And at the same time, I was working with some athletes. I decided to intern with who I thought was one of the greatest strength training coaches in the country, which, lucky enough he was in the Boston area, so it worked out well. I was coaching high school track and field. So pretty much I was getting up at 4:00 in the morning and working until who knows when at night.

And as a lot of personal trainers happen, you start to get burnt out. As much as you love your job, you can only do it for so long. And I kind of stumbled upon — like I started working and leveraging my time a little bit better and started doing speed camps and other types of sports camps where I could get more athletes in and help more people and make a little bit more money.

BK: Let me ask you a question right there, because you just explained a little transformation there. I want to get kind of a timeline going here. Just give me a year. When did you start working in that personal training department in Boston?

PB: I graduated in 2000, so I started right away; right when I graduated in the summer of 2000.

BK: Okay. So the timeline starts in 2000 where you graduated, and you’re now going into the personal training field in the largest personal training department in Boston.

PB: Right.

BK: So, moving forward, I’m just curious. At what point did you figure out, “Gosh, I can leverage myself and start doing speed camps”? How many years later?

PB: About four, where it actually started coming together, where I figured I wanted to help more people. It wasn’t about money at all. I was interning; I doing all this other stuff where I could care less how much money I made. And it was really, how could I help more people? And then you start changing your mindset. You say, “Wait, I can make more money doing the same thing and help more people at the same time.” So it kind of made sense.

BK: Sure. So moving forward there, so you’re doing the speed camps and you’re obviously reaching more people, rather than just the whole one-on-one thing. What’s next? What happens?

PB: So I’m still working all these jobs, and someone I went to high school with who also ran Division I track and field, so he was coaching track and field in the local area as I was, and we decided to combine and work camps together, and decide to put a company together and do our own thing. His mother — I’m not sure if you remember Corey Rudl.

BK: Yeah. I do, actually.

PB: He was putting on a conference in Boston, him and Jermaine Griggs. And my business partner, Letief, his mother bought us tickets to it. It was how to market online. But we had no idea; we didn’t want to go to this thing. We kind of had to; she bought us tickets; I guess we’ll go this weekend to check it out, since it was local. If it was anywhere else, we wouldn’t have gone.

So we go there, and Jermaine Griggs is definitely very motivational. He does how to play keyboard by ear, and he was like 18 at the time. And he was just killing it. So maybe there is something to this marketing thing. We created a product that summer in 2004, more to give away; give to parents and athletes that we couldn’t work with. People were coming to us and we didn’t have time to work with more people, so we said we’ll just put this product together of our system and kind of give it away to people that we can’t work with, because we felt bad.

So after we go into this conference, this seminar, we figured that we’d try this online thing; continue to do camps, and pretty much give it a try. So January 1st of 2005, I quit all my other jobs and we started our company and put our website up.

athletesBK: Was that Athletes Acceleration?

PB: Yes.

BK: Okay. Got it. Now, moving forward from there, I’m real curious about the story here, because now you’ve left the offline world — and I’ve got this theory about the offline world. And you’re talking to a guy who worked in the trenches, worked the early morning hours, closed down the gym at 11:00 p.m. at night. It’s funny; when I went from offline to online, it was almost like taking your car from New York to California on dirt roads, to all of a sudden realizing there’s a super-interstate — the Autobahn — where you can go as fast as you want, so long as you don’t crash. That was my epiphany.

So I’m curious. When you went online from 2005 moving forward, what happened next?

PB: All right. So, I quit my job; really didn’t save up for it. I just figured it’s going to be successful, no doubt in my mind. Instead of “ready-aim-fire”, it was “ready-fire, and then aim later.” So I just went after it. When I work, I don’t want to be outworked by anyone. So when it’s time to hustle, that’s what I’m doing. So I figured, I’m going to kill it. The Internet’s huge. You can make so much money on there; you can reach so many people; put up a website where I can pretty much check my e-mail and search — I was going to say Google, but it was Yahoo! at the time who was the big name — and that’s pretty much all I could do.

So I had really no idea how to put up a website, do any of this at the time. So I paid someone from Sweden like $200 or something like that to put up our website. I figured we’d make a ton of money. In that money, January, we grossed $1200 online. It was a little scary to just kind of jump into it and that’s all you’re making. But, just trying to figure out process and the systems, and really how to do it. Within our first six months, we started making $20,000 a month, and then obviously grew from there.

BK: Okay. So six months into 2005 — the first month it was $1200; by the six month point, you’re doing $20,000 a month.

PB: Yeah. It went like $1200 to like $1400 to like $4000, then I think it was $12,000. Then we hit $20,000. And we said, all right, now we know what we’re doing. Obviously we didn’t know it that much, but we figured out what was working, what wasn’t, and just started making improvements from there.

BK: Pat, let me ask you a question, because this is really interesting, and I know a lot of trainers will ask you this question, too, is what was the product, number one, and how long did it take you to create the product or products that started driving in $20,000 a month?

speedtrainingPB: The only product that we had at that time — and the first product that we created — was called Complete Speed Training, which we still sell now. It’s still like the best speed training product out on the market because it encompasses every area. It’s like five DVDs. We pretty much put our whole system on DVD. So, the system that we were using to train our athletes how to get faster, and we covered power training, strength training, core, conditioning, acceleration, max velocity, speed endurance, all that good stuff and more.

BK: Five DVDs.

PB: Five DVDs and a manual. That’s what we came up with when we started. We filmed it ourselves. Letief did the editing, which he had no idea how to do that. It took probably a couple months from start to finish; a lot longer — we figured we’d get it done in a week. That didn’t really happen. At the time, we were doing the copying, the burning of the DVDs ourselves. We’d be going to the mail; showing up with the packages for each order ourselves. So we did everything in-house until we could afford to start outsourcing. So you don’t need tons of money to get started. We did everything ourselves. I was creating the labels for the DVDs at the beginning.

BK: That is awesome. So obviously you realized at some point, oh my gosh, I’ve got a market cornered. Which, still, if I’m not mistaken, your niche is the speed-endurance athletes; is that right?

PB: Speed and power athletes. So we gear more towards sprinters, football players; those type of athletes. We didn’t any market research. We had no idea. Like if you look at the speed training market now, there are a couple people that are doing fairly well. We think we have it fairly cornered. We can definitely expand it out. But, doing market research, I don’t know if I would have got into this niche. I just did what I loved to do, and it kind of grew from there. And maybe it was dumb because it was a general niche, so we can’t talk to a specific athlete — you know, just a track and field guy, just a football guy; we’re talking in general terms, which hurts a little bit in our marketing. But it’s the position we put ourselves in.

BK: Let me ask you a question based on that, because you led right into the question I was going to ask, and you answered it. In the beginning, you did no market research. It was one of things where, “I like doing this, I’m passionate for this, this is what I wake up for in the morning,” and you dove into it. But if the Pat today can go back to 2004, 2003, what kind of market research would you do? Or what kind of positioning would you do in a niche? What would you do different?

PB: What would I do different? That’s a good question. What we were passionate about, well, we both coached track and field and worked with athletes, football-specific. So those were our two major markets. So to do differently we would have created a specific track and field product. So now we can cover more; we can throw block work in and that sort of thing, and talk about the individual races. And football, we would have talked about more how to run a faster 40 and throw a lot more agility work in. So we would have separated in that way, instead of just kind of be general with the whole overall speed training.

BK: Gotcha. That’s really good advice, and the reason I ask that loaded question was — and I know you hear this a lot of times from trainers or anybody looking to go into the information marketing industry is their product or idea is too general. It might be a product for women or a product for men, and they think, well, that’s my niche. But that’s still way too general, and I wanted to hear from you, a guy who’s successful now. And you just said that you kind of painted yourselves into a corner where this is your market. And it’s interesting that had you had to do it over again, you would have picked a tighter niche.

PB: I’m just saying, you can’t expand your market. Say, if I had a football product, I can do all different things for football and get into skills, or maybe bring on another coach that’s doing the skills portion, and that can branch out from there so it’s easy to leverage the products that you have; the focus and the more niche that you are. So it just makes your life a lot easier. And from a marketing standpoint, if someone’s coming to my sales copy on my website, I can speak directly to that track and field sprinter instead of just speaking globally and not using specific terms. So I’m just making my life harder by being more general.

BK: Gotcha. Hey, I’m kind of curious, and I appreciate your candor here. So let’s dive into now the actual logistics of what you do; of being an information marketer, because that’s exactly what you do these days; correct?

PB: Right.

BK: Well, my question is, I’m Joe Athlete or Joe Coach and I log on — I search on Google and I log on and I see your website. Now, I’m looking at your website right now and I see a lot of products. What percentage of your products are hard products, physical products, and what percentage are virtual downloadable products?

PB: I would say 90 percent are physical. And that was just a choice we made at the time. I love digital products. We just released one a couple months ago and it’s doing real well and I love not having the cost of production being taken out every month. And it’s a higher end product. It’s a $300 product. It’s not high-end in the how-to-make-money market, but it’s a high end in sports information market or training market. And it’s a digital product.


BK: All right. That’s really amazing. I’ve got to reiterate what you just said. A lot of people have the misconception that if it’s a digital product, well, then there’s a perception that the perceived value has got to be lower. But obviously, one, because you’re in a niche, you can charge more for a product. In other words, if I just did “how to market” or “how to sell” and put out a book in Barnes and Noble, it’d probably cost you $10. But I’ve got a how to market and how to sell for personal trainers, and we’re selling dozens a day because it’s for such a niche market. Now that’s not necessarily a downloadable product, but I’ve got downloadable products that are just as expensive.

So you’re saying right now, 90 percent of your products are physical hard products, which actually I’m in the same boat. Are you switching over to more digital products?

PB: Not necessarily. We’re going to do both. Before, we wanted the perceived value to stay high, and most coaches like their youth to be getting DVDs for their training information. Now, as that’s changing a little bit more, as e-books are becoming available, really, people are paying for the information. If you have solid information, they’ll pay any price for it. Obviously, you can’t go too high. You’ve got to find out what the breakage model is going to be.

But what people are paying $300 for — and we haven’t really marketed it. We just kind of threw it out; tried it in a teleseminar, and it crushed it. So now we’re trying to figure out other ways, putting our whole marketing system into it. We just wanted to test it out, how it would sell. And it’s videos on how to create programs; program design for track and field coaches; working with sprinters. It’s just program design information, which there’s a big need for. We overdelivered and provide like a ton of videos and all these bonuses in it, but it’s still a high-end product, where most track and field products are selling for $40, and those are physical products.

lockBK: Now, I’m curious. How do you deliver this? Is it a password-protected site, where once you make the purchase, they can go on and check out the videos? Is that what it is?

PB: Yeah. To make it even better, instead of being “here’s a webpage to download all your stuff” or “here’s a password-protected webpage,” I created a membership site. So it has the membership site feel to it. There’s no discussion forum, but I just broke it up and really made it look pretty. So you log in — you have your login information; it’s secure. It’s just a whole members area and there’s different places. So it looks like a membership site and they’re getting their videos there. If I just created like one page, and even if it was password-protected and just say, “here, download all this stuff right here,” it looks less valuable, if you will, I guess.

BK: Well, let’s be honest. It would look cheesy, versus a professionally done, what looks like a membership site that they purchased, as opposed to, here, download them and save them to your computer; your computer crashes, it’s gone. They have the assurance knowing that this membership site is always there as my resource center; correct?

PB: Yeah. They’re paying for the information, but you also don’t want it to look cheap, because then they just feel like it’s cheap. Whether or not the information’s good, you don’t want them to come into the site right away and think that, “This looks cheap. What did I pay $300 for?”

BK: Exactly. So the packaging is very important. And I’m curious. Are you using the whole aMember, 1ShoppingCart, Revolution theme system there from WordPress, or are you using something like Membergate?

amemberPB: I have a Membergate site, but what I’m using for this, just because it’s working with 1ShoppingCart is exactly what you said. Go through aMember; it works with 1ShoppingCart, and you can just throw up a WordPress type of theme to it.

BK: And the reason I’m poking and prodding and asking a lot of questions here is because the people who are going to be listening to this audio program on information product and how you went from the slower, offline world into the faster-paced, faster-growth potential/expansion potential of the online world is just that. One of my clients and I, Josh Carter, we created, which is an e-book product on the front end for $37 with a $19 upsell. On the back end, one of the bonuses of the product is a 30-day access to, which is a full-blown membership site with access to Josh and awesome videos and all these bonuses; video shopping trips that he does at Costco and everywhere else; fast-food restaurants that you can go to and get healthy stuff. And that’s $19 a month, and you’re automatically tied into that continuity program.

And that’s the system that we use, which is the Revolution theme WordPress blog with aMember to manage the membership and 1ShoppingCart to manage the payment processing system. And we went from idea to implementation in 38 days. In fact, it launched January 5th. And the formula there — again, with selling and creating products in 38 days — we went from e-book to bonus gifts to the back-end product; versus to do something like that on the offline world is way different. And I just wanted to, again, bring that to the attention of the listeners here, that you did something very similar. Do you have a back-end for this product, or is it just $300 and boom, you have access?

PB: You have access and that’s it. We’re weak on continuity. That’s kind of like a flaw. We have some things in the works, working with other people. But I guess it’s more of a lifestyle choice, where I don’t want to provide myself content every month and have to produce content every month. So I’ve kind of stayed away from it. We tried some things, and we’re going to be doing some things in the future. But definitely, a weakness in our business model.

dollarsBK: The continuity, is what you’re saying?

PB: Lack of continuity, right.

BK: Yeah. I got to tell you, it’s funny, because a lot of guys I talk to — and I’m fortunate enough, and I hope Josh Carter never listens to this audio program, because we’re partners in that — but I kind of went the whole publisher/content provider angle, in that I’m the publisher, I’m the idea man — and in fact, to be quite honest with you, when I was a trainer, I would train clients who would show up late to my 30-minute sessions; they had 15 minutes to go or eight minutes, and I’d say, “Okay. We’re going to knock out a hundred repetitions of a body part or two, and you’re out of here, Mr. Jones.”

So of course, I didn’t want to put a product out there to compete with trainers. So I said, “Hey, Josh, let me show you this training system. Let me know what you think.” He loved it, and it was literally this past December — in the holiday times I take November and December off — it was a harebrain idea and I said, will you put your name on it and start creating content and get behind it. He said, absolutely. And that’s how we did it.

fitpro1But the biggest flaw in the continuity model is if you do a continuity model that’s content-based — in my opinion, here’s why. The five percent of the people who are going to use the content are always going to want it; and if you don’t deliver, they’re going to want to cancel or breathe down your neck. The other 95 percent who are members, while they like the content while it’s there, they’re not action takers. So they might very well cancel.

My solution for that has been to create continuity business that are service-based and not content-based. A great example is FitPro Newsletter. I don’t know if you’ve heard of FitPro Newsletter, my newsletter software.

PB: Yep.

BK: It’s basically a done-for-you software. You can literally sign up as a personal trainer, upload your picture, upload your links, upload some testimonials, and on the 1st and 15th of every month, we send out a fresh article, online newsletter, to your clients and prospects and your entire list that you uploaded. And from there, we’ve got viral marketing things set up where your list will grow; lead generators to put on your website.  It’s funny, because I’m laying out all my cards out here — the average porn site gets three to four months of stickiness; the average content site gets something like six or seven months; and we’ve got 19 months of stickiness on that product because it’s service-based and the trainer has to not lift a finger.

hitechOn the flipside of things, one of my service/content software sites is HiTech Trainer, an online training component, and every time a trainer wants to use it, they have to log in, create a workout, and send it. It’s an awesome product and gives the trainers who use it a great semi-passive income stream but it takes more effort. And the stickiness on that is lower.

And it goes to show you, like you said, content versus service. I figured out service is the way to go, and the manifesto’s going to be all about service. But yeah, that’s the fatal flaw in continuity that a lot of people don’t talk about or don’t realize until they get into it and realize they’re held captive by it.

PB: Yeah. That’s why the publisher model’s great, or like you said, like a software — something that’s delivered to them that’s push-button that just shows up, especially if they can make money by using this product or service or whatever. It’s coming to them and is being sent out to their clients, or it’s bringing more people in. They just are going to continue to use that forever. That’s a good model to follow.

BK: So I’m curious now. So here we are in 2009, and is it safe to assume you’re a full-blown information marketer, right?

PB: I am, yes.

BK: I mean, you’re not doing any side gigs offline; you’re full-blown into this information marketing. You don’t have to divulge the exact numbers, but I’m just curious; the guy who was a trainer in 2000 and now it’s 2009, less than a decade — where is your income these days? Or what’s the difference between where you were and where you are?

PB: It’s enormous. Since my first in 2005, like having that $20,000 a month, I was having a party that month. It was the greatest time ever. And now, if I even come close to that, I would cry, because it’s way too little, and I wouldn’t know what to do. It’s not that because of all the systems I’ve created in place, but it’s a dramatic difference.

I spend more money on education this past year — actually, I don’t even know what the final number is, but I spend well over $50,000 a year just on Mastermind groups, seminars, products. I spend more in education than I used to make as a trainer. It’s kind of crazy, like what you start to do and how quickly your income’s going to increase that way. And that number is — I expect to at least make 10 times the amount that I spend on my education and my income; and if I don’t, then I’m going to drop that piece. So it’s the same thing, like when you’re providing value for your customers, you at least want to provide them with 10 times more than what they spend in value. And I expect the same thing in my continuing education; that sort of thing.

BK: Okay. So it’s interesting. You look for that and you provide that. So when you create a product, you say, how can this provide at least 10 times the value of what they’re paying? On the flipside, when you’re buying education, or what I call, when you’re buying speed — because really, the right education buys you years of speed that you would have otherwise had to earn on your own — you’re looking for at least 10 times the value or you’re going to drop that source of knowledge?

PB: Yeah, definitely.

BK: Yeah. That’s an awesome way. And a lot of people don’t look at that. They go, “Well, I go to this Mastermind or I go to these events, and they’re fun and they’re great, and I get to rub elbows with colleagues.” But if they get nothing out of it, it’s a great big pump-up and nothing else, but continue to come, they don’t stop and quantify and say, this is what I’m looking for. So that’s really cool that you’re doing that.

So one last question on the logistics, because again, I want everybody listening to get the right idea around it. This is not a huge hurdle to do. So, show me behind the scenes. I want you to pull the curtain back. I’m not a personal trainer, but maybe a coach. I just bought a product off your site. What happens? Step-by-step; who gets the order, who does the shipping; what’s the processes that take place?

PB: Well, I just want to share one thing first. If you go to my home site,, that’s just like a compile of actual products. So it’s almost like a shopping type of site.

Now, my main products, I have individual sites that I do my direct marketing pieces, too. So like, my Complete Speed Training product; it’s on So my other products are on different sites where I can actually drive some different traffic to and more targeted traffic to. So if you just go to that home site, it brings in traffic, it converts, but I spend a lot of time on marketing other sites around that, if that makes sense.


BK: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. In fact, I clicked on it and I see the sales copy there. And since you opened up that can of worms, I’m going to ask — and that’s a brilliant way to do it, by the way. The way that most big businesses attempt to do it is they just have a little blurb or description of the product. That’s never going to sell a product. So Athletes Acceleration is kind of like the hub, and of course, the person buying it and wanting to learn more about it is going to go into a full-page direct-response copy; correct?

PB: Right. And actually, we’re going to putting out soon — and the model has worked greatly — is using videos to show samples of the product, but also you giving a real hardcore view of that product. Say what you liked and even what you didn’t like about the product. Be honest. When we’ve done that, it’s killed it. So what we want to do is go around to each of our products on that site on and create videos for each of those products. So it’s something I think everyone should test, because it works a lot better; creates that bond of trust where you’re being honest about the product.

So when they actually get the product, they know what to expect and they’ll come back to you because you’re speaking the truth. I don’t think you should say everything about that product is great and it’s the most amazing product ever. Give details of what you think, honestly, about the product. So it’s just something that we’re starting to do and I think people don’t want to read as much copy anymore. So if you can kind of condense it; especially put it in a video format, it should work out better.

I feel like I’m not answering your questions at all. Just rambling about other things.

BK: No, no. Hey, get it off your chest, man. That’s what this call’s for.

Seriously, that’s a really good gem you just put out there, because a lot of the Internet — I mean, you look at StomperNet and it’s 99 percent video sales letters these days. It’s hardly ever any copy, and when there is copy, it’s after the fact for the people who — they’re trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of the market. It’s all switching over to video and copy now.

PB: I was going to say, and if you’re doing your marketing right, they don’t need to e-mail. Like, they don’t need to read the sales copy anymore. They can look at the video and figure out what it’s all about, and through other processes, depending on how you’re getting that person there to the actual sales copy; how you lead them there. They should be ready to buy that product without even looking at the sales copy. Maybe they’ll check the price and that’s about it.

BK: Yeah. That’s a real good point, and I’ve heard that from a lot of people. They said, hey, after a while, I heard so much about it and saw so many blog posts and videos and whatnot about a particular product, that when I went to the sales copy it was pretty much reading through some testimonials to just get further credibility and social proof, checked out the price, and then made my decision. And you hit the nail on the head.

PB: I’m sure you go through the same thing where when you launch a new product, just because they already trust you, they know your information’s solid; so if you say, you know what, here’s a new product I’m releasing and it’s going live at this time, I’m sure people will sign up in four seconds. It doesn’t give them time to read anything. They’re just signing up because they know the quality of the information you already provide. So it just shows you that if you’re doing your marketing right and providing quality content where people know, like, and trust you, then they’re going to buy whatever you put out.

google-adwordsBK: Absolutely. Speaking of marketing, let me ask you. What are your top three marketing strategies, tactics, to drive traffic; especially to condition them and then drive traffic, or maybe to drive traffic and then condition them to want to buy? Are you using any AdWords right now?

PB: I do. I outsourced that for a while, and the person charged a lot of money for a little result. So I wasn’t happy. I tried a couple people. It didn’t work out well. I’m doing it myself; I’m a lot happier. It’s part of your marketing. It’s part of your message; what you’re putting out there is what your ad is going to be. So it’s kind of like when you write sales copy or put something on the page. You kind of want it to come from you. So I think it’s a skill that you need to learn. You need to learn how to write. It’s extremely valuable to your business and the message that you put out there.

So we do some pay per click stuff. Drive traffic like every way possible. Getting out on iTunes; putting audios on there. Getting video on YouTube, Google Video — every way possible you can. Press releases, articles — what I suggest, if you can do it, is try to leverage as much as possible. So do a video of whatever; of speed training. How to run a faster 40; say if I did a video on that. I can rip the audio from that and use it in different places. I can have it transcribed and use it as an article and submit those to directories. I can use that on my blog. I can put that on my website. I can make a press release about it. If you do something once, just try to leverage it as much as you can.

BK: Yeah. I love that idea. And in fact, you mentioned traffic guys. Another thing I use, and it’s been real successful for me, is TubeMogul. It’s an awesome service that if you’re in a hurry and you just want to pump out a lot of content — and in fact, TubeMogul was responsible for getting me — because I was just pumping it out through TubeMogul because I didn’t just want to go to YouTube and Viddler and all these other sites — so I just pumped the videos out through TubeMogul. And within 25, 26 days, I pumped out seven videos. All of a sudden, I noticed on YouTube — I own and, which are my top two keywords in my industry. And when you pop both of those into YouTube, the top two videos are mine and then video number five, seven, twelve.

Now, what I did was after using TubeMogul, then I would go into my YouTube account and then change the tags of that video and the description and optimize it. But man, I’ve got to tell you. I was really impressed with TubeMogul, and it’s a free service out there that kicks butt.

So the final question that I have for you there, and I know we just — I kind of tapped on it and we moved on to something else — was the entire logistics, behind the scenes. What happens when someone puts in an order?

fulfillmentBK: Someone puts in an order; there’s going to be some sort of upsell there, somewhere, and some sort of sale on the “thank you” page, too; a one-time offer sort of thing. But when the order goes through — I use 1ShoppingCart. It has a lot of flaws but it gets the job done, and I haven’t really found anything better. So 1ShoppingCart takes it; it goes through my merchant account. The order goes to my warehouse, my distribution company. So I have my own products that the distribution company makes, and then I have other people’s products that I sell; just because most trainers don’t know how to sell their own products, so I sell more on my website for their product than they could on their own, just because they’re not good at sales copy and that sort of thing.

So I warehouse those products at my distribution company. So they get the e-mail; they send it out, and that’s pretty much it. I don’t have to worry about anything. I have a virtual assistant that handles any phone calls or questions people may have about their order. If there is a return, it goes back to the company and they’re refunded their money. So I don’t deal with any of that, which is a huge change from 2005.

BK: Okay. And that’s the point I wanted to get to, is in 2005, you were putting the labels on the DVDs and all that, which in the beginning we all kind of have to start. Although, my argument is even a trainer or anyone starting information marketing right now does not have to go through that process anymore because there’s fulfillment companies that’ll crank out four or five sales for you a month until your business takes off. So you no longer house DVDs, press DVDs, CDs, do any of that. It’s all done by the fulfillment company and they get a copy of the receipt and they fulfill the order; right?

PB: Yeah. And we’re billed 30 days later for the cost of production, shipping, and all that fun stuff, and that’s pretty much how it goes down. Don’t be afraid by the cost of anything, because like you said, there are print on demand-type of companies, where once you create the product to send it to them, until you start doing more volume, then you can negotiate your prices down from there. It’s so much better than having to burn everything yourself, edit everything yourself; put the labels on, make sure the DVDs actually work, show up to UPS with the packages and make sure they go out. And if there’s a shipping problem, you have to manually do it. That’s just not fun. It’s just a waste of fun.

BK: Yeah. You know what’s funny? As you’re describing all that, I started feeling anxiety and I realized why. My very first info product, I did exactly that. I paid $2300 to have a book and a set of six CDs — it was one program together; it was a big red book and six CDs — and I had to pay like $2100, $2200 for like 400 copies, and I had them sitting in a room in my house, and that was it. The order would come through and my wife and I would print the labels and put it together. And every time I would look in that corner, I would see two grand or so sitting there. To me, it was just $2000 cash sitting there because I couldn’t move the product fast enough. And I kept thinking about all the different things I could do with that money if it wasn’t sitting there.

Fast-forward to where we are today; everything’s done through distribution and fulfillment houses. We still ship out some stuff from the office, but that’s because we gets things made real cheap elsewhere, and then we pump out so much stuff that I’ve got the resources to do that now. But man, it is amazing what these fulfillment houses and print on demand places can do to just relieve the stress of the onesie-twosie orders. That’s a real good point that you brought up.

Pat, I got to tell you; is there any other things that young, new, green, trainer or otherwise person asks you, hey, what’s the secret to information marketing? Any other gems that you want to give us before we end this conference call here?

PB: I don’t think there’s any secret, really. And people that are trying to sell secrets really aren’t showing you the truth. I think if you have the passion to do what you love to do, that’s going to carry over to everything.

I would say passion and planned hustle; not just hustling and going sporadically, but planned hustle where you know what you’re doing and you really want to work hard. If you accept that you’re going to make it — it’s kind of funny in our industry, that there’s a lot of coaches and trainers, that people are afraid to fail, which is crazy. Because as a coach, if I’m looking at my athlete and they failed at a competition or a game or something, I’m finding out what they did wrong so they’re not going to fail again. And you have to put the same mentality towards your business as you would to the athletes that you’re training. If you fail, all right, that didn’t work out; how can we change that?

I’m a big Tony Robbins fan, and he always says, all you have to do is say what you want to do, be specific with whatever your goal is, take action, notice what’s working and what’s not working, and then change your approach to that. It’s easy as that; those four easy steps. Like you can get creative and go in-depth on how you’re driving traffic; your sales process; because it can get complicated. But if you just do the basic things first, and then learn as you go. My biggest belief is you accept your own reality. If you decide that you’re going to succeed, you’re actually going to succeed.

BK: Yeah. You know, I think it was Henry Ford that said, whether you think you can or whether you think you can’t, you’re probably going to be right. And that to me sums it up.

PB: Exactly. Especially like if you’re studying a lot of marketing stuff. I’m not a big fan of people that are marketers in a ton of different niches. Like, that’s great if they’re providing a quality service and product. But I can’t do that. I need to be doing something I’m passionate about and working in something that I actually want to get up in the morning doing. I love my niche. I love my industry. So I want to stay in that. I’m not going to try to go outside of that and try to market in all these other different niches just because that’s where the money’s at; because I’d fail in it because I don’t like it.

I feel you have to just stay and do what you love to do. Whatever gets you excited about waking up in the morning, stick with that.

BK: Absolutely. That’s a very good point. Let me ask you one more thing. You’re working on a new project right now, and I got to tell you, I personally am pumped up about it, just because of the business model and the opportunity that it presents. Can you tell us about it and let people know how to get involved with it?

empirePB: It’s called Sports Camp Empire, and it’s on And what it is is how to make money and how to be successful running camps and clinics, and sports camps and clinics or boot camps, or just working with groups. It’s taking your time and leveraging your time and getting more athletes or more clients in that area. And we cover the offline marketing piece, the online marketing piece, and really how to make a successful camp.

It’s all about leveraging your time. As coaches and trainers — well, a lot of coaches are also teachers, and when they have summers off, I see a lot of teachers that are painting houses, doing manual labor; bartenders, waitresses. And that’s what they do for the summer to try to make more money because they’re not paid well for the rest of the year. So if you’re already a coach and you already have the skills, use the skills and the passion and just make more money doing that.

BK: That’s awesome. Now, Sports Camp Empire, obviously; so what you get is the step-by-step on how to create a sports camp that’s successful?

PB: Yes. I took myself and my business partner, Latief, we did the online and the sales and the copy and the online marketing and that sort of thing. I got my friends and other coaches; Duane Carlisle, who’s the strength coach of the San Francisco 49ers, and who’s run speed camps and sports camps for 15-20 years; Brian Grasso, the president of the IYCA, who continues to run youth camps for — he’s done it forever and he does it all over the world; and Lee Taft, who’s another speed expert out there, that’s in the field every day and just running camps and getting the job done and having these huge camps.

So I got these people and we shared our knowledge on like a webinar/online seminar type of format. So it’s taking you and giving you all these ideas and showing you how you can make a more successful sports camp. And “sports camp” is pretty general. You can do it with boot camps, weight loss camps; a martial arts studio can use it. Any kind of group can use that type of marketing.

BK: Right. So the formula is the formula, and that’s what you’re really giving out. And it could be used literally in every group-oriented niche.

PB: Yeah. You know, pretty much marketing is marketing. So if you figure out how to use it towards whatever you’re trying to do — like there’s going to be differences here and there, but if you’re working with groups, it’s a huge carryover for working with really any type of group.

BK: That’s awesome. What was that website, one more time?

PB: It’s

BK: Well, that’s awesome. Pat, I really appreciate you taking the time away from your launch process here to help us out and give us some insight about becoming an info marketer.

PB: Thanks a lot, Bedros.

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